The god Of Abuse

“Gentle Christians” mothers is an online support group for Christian women to be gentler moms.  Moms sometimes need to be encouraged to raise their children in the Lord.  You decide you want to be a better mom.  You come across a website that claims to be Christian.  You look on their website and see this on their about page:

1) To encourage mothers to minister to their children heartily, as unto the Lord.
2) To help mothers learn to parent more gently.
3) To offer mothers information so they can make informed choices.
4) To strengthen and build mothers’ confidence in their choices and in their ability to parent their children as God guides them.
5) To encourage mothers to love their children, their husbands, and, above all, to love our Lord God.

Can’t argue with any of them except I might add as God guides them through His word to number 4.  All great goals!  You think, “Great! I am going to sign up!”  Unfortunately, this is not what happens much of the time on GCM.  The above listed goals are very misleading.  In reality they should read:

1) To encourage moms to spend more and more time on GCM.
2) To help mothers learn to parent without the help of the fathers.
3) To offer mothers information so they can parent “our” way.
4) To strengthen mothers to be in total control of all child-rearing decisions.
5) To encourage mothers to love a false god and leave their husbands and put their children on antidepressants and other brain drugs (I have heard this from a few people now plus all of my sister’s children have been put on different drugs over the past two or so years).

It has been nice to see some deactivations stating that they need to spend more time with their families.  Yeah!  Also, the owner of the site did say they were going to get back to the goals of GCM.  It is concerning how far removed they became in the first place and will change really happen?  I can’t answer those questions.  This site may have started with good intentions and it had such potential to be a place of encouragement, but knowing what happened to my sister and others, I know this is an unsafe place to be.  I am not very hopeful that there will be any lasting change.  There are too many people still on GCM that follow the latter goals.

So if you are new to “Gentle Christian” Mothers, you might expect them to talk a lot about God and His word.  You might not know that evil takes place deep within.  The ungodly spouting off their ungodly doctrines.  You may go for a year or two thinking all is peachy-keen, but that is because you aren’t part of the privileged class.  They worship a different god.  She is the god of abuse.  And she has different rules to play by and if you go off script, well you will most likely be labeled toxic or unsafe.

How can this be?  It starts by getting woman to believe that anyone who is supportive of spanking is an abuser.  Once they believe that, then the separation from family can begin.  They talk down to their husbands because what do they know about parenting?  Nothing in their opinion.  They are the ones who spend all day on the computer talking to “experts” so they know it all.  If the husband doesn’t comply with all of their “rules” for parenting, then the breakdown of the marriage results.  From there it just gets nastier and nastier.

Here are some of the rules of the abuse god you should know about if you are going to join GCM.

(The following images were all taken from http://teampyro.blogspot.com.  Too bad the first two pictures weren’t of women.)

1) If you, a GCMer, claims abuse, then everything the said abuser does is abuse.  Nothing nice can be said about the alleged abuser nor can anyone tell you that something he is doing is rational because to do so would be to take his side, to do so would not be supporting you, the GCMer, 100%.  To do so would be crossing a boundary.  Anyone who crosses a boundary needs to be immediately cast out of your life forever.

2) Anyone who disagrees with you does not worship the one true abuse god and has crossed a boundary,  have nothing to do with them.

3) Slander the accused at any chance you get.  Tell everyone.  If someone cautions you on how you are speaking about the abuser, cut them out of your life.  They obviously don’t understand the healing process.

4) Never read the Bible.  If you do, only read the parts about grace and forgiveness and then apply it only to yourself.

5) Tell everyone how terrible your parents are.  They deserve to be treated without any consideration unless they are okay with your new cult-like personality and slandering your husband.

6) Hate everyone who even says the slightest thing you might take as an insult.  Hope they die and go to hell.  After all they crossed a boundary.

7) Commit adultery/fornication.  How else will you heal?
Also body mutilation is a good thing.

8) Try to take all your husband’s money and if he doesn’t give it all to you, tell everyone he is financially abusing you.  He is obviously crossing a financial boundary if he wants any money.

9) Tell lies if you have to if will advance your agenda.

10) Never answer questions.  You owe it to no one.  There are no reasonable questions.  They are obviously asking you questions to keep you under their control.  Don’t let anyone cross this boundary. 

Take heed of Paul’s words to Timothy:

But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty.  For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people. 2 Timothy 3:1-5

If you are thinking of joining GCM, remember the words of Paul and have nothing to do with people like this!

Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?  What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?  (2 Cor 6:14-15, ESV)

Bad Theology – Fellowship with Unbelievers

“Gentle Christian” Mothers allows anyone on as long as they don’t believe spanking is okay.  They can be Christian, Mormon, Catholic, Psuedo-Christian, anything but a spanker.  Considering the name has Christian in it, let’s take a look at what God says.

Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness?  What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever?  (2 Cor 6:14-15, ESV)

Inclusivity only leads to problems.  If we would read and obey Scripture we would know the dangers.

For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight.  (1 Corinthians 3:19 NIV)

You might say, “It is just parenting advice!”  Oh, but parenting advice from non-Christians is always devoid of biblical truths from scripture.  We are to raise our children to know God and His word.  We are to teach them the dangers of sin, the amazing grace of our God, His mercy and forgiveness, and walking in His ways.  Too infrequently will there be any talk of such things on GCM.  Most advice has to do with the latest pop psychology studies devoid of mentioning the dreaded word - sin.  The foundation laid at GCM is that children have age appropriateness (I can’t remember the term GCMers always use).  There is nothing wrong with recognizing that a 3 year old can’t do the dishes but a 13 year old can.  There is nothing wrong with recognizing that the older a child gets, the more he understands.  But when age appropriateness and developmental milestones take the place of biblical truths, then there is a problem. Outbursts of anger become “big feelings” instead of sin that needs to be addressed.  Mammas just have “big feelings” too so instead of asking Christ to forgive them, they just remind each other to, “give yourself grace.”   What is missing in parenting on GCM is Christ.  Every once in a while He gets an honorable mention, but He is far from the focus at GCM.

Instead of seeking godly counsel when women are having problems in their marriage or with their family, the fellowship of unbelievers says to divorce and never talk to your family again.  I have heard from many formers who all said similar things: there was a lot of husband bashing going on, convincing wives they are abused so that everyone started getting divorced,  people were encouraged to leave husband, friends and family over minor disagreements.

Blessed is the man
who walks not in the counsel of the wicked,
nor stands in the way of sinners,
nor sits in the seat of scoffers;
(Psalm 1:1 ESV)

Wordliness, carnality and indifference to sin are becoming the norms at GCM.  How did that happen?  Fellowship with unbelievers.  The god of this age blinds (2 Cor 4:4) them from the truth of the gospel.

You adulterous people!  Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. (James 4:4, ESV)

Terrible Excuses

The owner of GCM once told me this about the way things work on GCM.  “Many different viewpoints may be expressed on the board.  We just ask that members respect the statement of beliefs and not post in a way which promotes beliefs which are contrary to our statement of beliefs and we ask that they follow the posting guidelines.”  And restated in the same e-mail to me, “Again, as I mentioned, we ask that members respect the statement of beliefs and not post in a way which promotes beliefs which are contrary to our statement of beliefs and we ask that they follow the posting guidelines.”  Some one I know looked on the public forum before and told me it had the makings of a cult, he couldn’t see from the public that it was.  He also mentioned a lot of the bad theology he saw.

The following quote is from a lady named Beth on Camille’s facebook page (I have no idea who these people are.  All I know from reading on facebook is Camille is a former GCMer who had problems with GCM).  From the sounds of it, Beth clicked on a GCM link for the first time.  This is what she said about it, “So having lurked a few threads, this is what I have come away with.  One thread of someone complaining about a remark her husband made.  Rather than discussing this issue with him, she went to a forum of strangers to complain and gain affirmation/ammunition from them.  NO ONE in the forum suggests she talk it out with her husband.  Other threads appear to be people looking for others to help them make what should be simple decisions. There seems to be an atmosphere of undue dependence on the opinions of the group. Not good.  So that’s just what I’ve gathered from a brief period of  lurking.”  Wow, she saw that after just a tiny bit of time gandering around!  And none of the people in charge at GCM can see this???

“We are being light.”  If GCM would argue this, that they think they are doing a good thing by allowing non-Christians on the site, they are mistaken.  I really don’t know if they think this or not, but this thought is often seen in Christianity today, being light to non-Christians by bringing them into close fellowship with believers.  As all the above verses mention that doesn’t work.  If GCM was actually a gospel centered place then non-Christians would be able to read the public forum pages and learn about godly parenting (BTW, non-Christians wouldn’t learn much of anything on GCM about biblical parenting or the gospel because they have strayed so far from the statement of belief.)

Hate Comments

Here is an example of how GCMers operate.  Once again they show their hypocrisy.  They are always right and everybody else is always wrong.  Even when they don’t know any of the people in real life.  They know it all!  “Herkimmerbones” wrote the following in different comment sections on my site.  My comments are obviously in maroon. 

“Thank you for clearly lining out just how little you understand about anything that happened. And you understand everything because????  You know my family, my brother-in-law, and you have known my sister all her life???? Do you even know my sister in real life?  Every word you write demonstrates that for you and your parents; the only thing that was important was yourselves. How YOU felt, how concerned YOU were, how embarrassed your Mother was, no concern at all for the person of your sister.

Thank you for making it so very clear.”

Why would you say I wasn’t concerned for my sister?  She was starting to drink to drown out her troubles.  Not a good time to take up drinking!  Then she lied about it.  Uh-oh, maybe there was a problem with her drinking if she wasn’t being forthright in telling me she was getting tipsy and even some GCMers were concerned.  Don’t you think a sibling who cares about the other one would worry once this was found out???  I was concerned for her mental health because she was seeing abuse in questions.  Did you even read the posts???  We were all concerned about the children for many reasons.  XXX XXXXX (edited April 13, 2014).

“I think you forgot the part where your affidavits stated that your sister was not capable of taking care of her children. Oh and the part where you quizzed a short-term acquaintance of hers from years before to certify that your sister had been ‘suicidal’ which by the way- hearsay is not admissible in court.
Talk about hearsay!  You have no idea what you are talking about!  I never contacted the “short-term acquaintance” as you call her.  I haven’t spoken with her since my sister left that area of the States.  I don’t even have her phone number!  She was contacted by the GAL and she told the GAL what had happened during that time.  I confirmed this information to the GAL when asked.  How do I know what happened?  I know because my sister told me about it after the fact (like the next day or something like that – I heard the story about my sister straight from my sister.).  Hence, why I was EXTREMELY worried about her and her children.  Did she tell you she XXX XXXXXXXX XX XXXXXXX XXX XXX XXXXXXXX (edited April 13, 2014) during that time as well?  She also had thoughts of leaving her family to go live with a woman she never met in real life, only online.  A total stranger!  She almost left her entire family to go live with a stranger many states away.  Bet she didn’t tell you that either.  I think there is a lot my sister is not telling you.  I was concerned then, imagine how frightened I was when she told us this was right up there with that tragedy and then kicks us out of her life!!  And to this day I am very concerned for her and her children.  And NO GCMer is helping her!

Oh- and please add in the part where BIL slept with the Guardian Ad Litem.”

Again, hearsay on your part!  I never heard that one.  Any proof????  Or is this one of my sister’s made up stories? 

“you really cannot see the beam in your own eye, can you. Nice work- you’ve tried and convicted yourself.”
What arrogance you have.  You have no idea what happened and you are so quick to judge people you have never met.  We have been worried sick about my sister since this all came about.  We still are sick over this.  There is nothing I can say though to you because you are part of the GCM cult that believes the GCMer is always right, always the victim, always to be believed no matter what the facts actually are.  It doesn’t matter if the family is concerned that she will be suicidal again or will have thoughts of killing XXX XXXXXXXX XXXXX (edited on April 13, 2014)

I never wanted the information about my sister’s previous suicidal and homicidal thoughts to come out,  but you all obviously know about it.  No point in holding back in the details, heh?  So if there is anybody who wants to have a real conversation and not just hurl all these false accusations at me, I would be happy to answer any of your questions.  My hope would be that one of you would finally see the problem (my sister who seems to have become an habitual liar, changing her past history to suite her current lifestyle, and the possible danger to herself and others) and for once try to truly help my sister.

 

 

The Call For Repentance

 

I acknowledged my sin to you, and I did not cover my iniquity;  I said, “I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,” and you forgave the iniquity of my sin. (Psalm 32:5 ESV)

Jesus would probably not be considered gentle by “gentle” “Christian” mothers when he spoke to the Pharisees and said something like this to them, “Woe to scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites! Blind guides.”  They probably also wouldn’t consider it gentle to say, “For they preach, but do not practice...For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people’s faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.  For you…make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves…You blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and the plate, that the outside also may be clean…So you also outwardly appear righteous to others, but within you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.” (Matthew 23:1-36)

Why do I say they wouldn’t consider Jesus gentle? Many GCMers avoid talk of sin for the most part.  They don’t seem to think they or their kids are sinners.  They might say they are sinners so they can say they have grace, but they never admit any of the sins they actually commit are sins.  It is so much easier to call sins by a psychology term so they can keep doing what they are doing.  So they will probably think I am harsh and be mad at me for what I am about to say to them.  My purpose though is actually to call them to repentance so they may walk in a manner worthy of God (2 Cor 7:8-11, 1 Thess 2:12).

SIN!  Woe to you GCMers, you hypocrites, you blind guides, you who preach but do not practice.  You make others twice as much a child of hell as you yourselves are.  You profess to know God but your actions deny Him.  Mourn and weep over your drunkenness, your fornication, your adultery, your lies, your idolatry, your hatred, your arrogance and pride.  Repent! “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice   homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10 ESV).”  “Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him (1 John 3:15).”  Those who practice these things will be thrown into the lake that burns with fire and sulfur (Revelation 21:8).

STOP! Stop playing the blame game.  Adam and Eve tried it, didn’t work.  Your sins are not the result of your (ex) husband or your parents.  “But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire (James 1:14).”  Admit your sins to God and stop trying to deny them.  Do you really think God is going to accept those excuses on the day of judgment?  The guilt you feel is the result of the sin you continue to commit against a Holy God who humbled Himself by becoming obedient to death, even death on a cross! (Phil 2:8)

FREEDOM!  True freedom does not come from body piercings, tattoos, drinking, workbooks, or sexual immorality.  You work hard for your freedom, but you are a slave to your sin.  Freedom, true freedom, only comes through Christ (John 8:31-38).  The Son sets you free!

FORGIVENESS!  How good of God to forgive us when we acknowledge our sins to Him.  He could hold our sins against us, but if we humble ourselves before Him, He gives us grace.  If we do not humble ourselves, keep on sinning deliberately, and not  confess our iniquities, He will oppose us.  It is a dreadful and fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (James 4:1-10, Hebrews 10:26-31) Repent while it is still today!  The precious promise of God is that He will remember your sins and lawless deeds no more.  Today is the day of salvation through Christ Jesus our Lord as 2 Cor 6:2 says, “Behold, now is the favorable time; behold, now is the day of salvation.”

Create in Me a Clean Heart, O God
Psalm 51

To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet went to him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.

Have mercy on me, O God,
according to your steadfast love;
according to your abundant mercy
blot out my transgressions.
Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity,
and cleanse me from my sin!

For I know my transgressions,
and my sin is ever before me.
Against you, you only, have I sinned
and done what is evil in your sight,
so that you may be justified in your words
and blameless in your judgment.
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
and in sin did my mother conceive me.
Behold, you delight in truth in the inward being,
and you teach me wisdom in the secret heart.

Purge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
Let me hear joy and gladness;
let the bones that you have broken rejoice.
Hide your face from my sins,
and blot out all my iniquities.

(Psalm 51:1-9 ESV)

 True Repentance by Phil Johnson, transcript
True Repentance, audio

 

 

 

Court

So my sister’s friend wondered why my family would side with an abuser and try to take my sister’s children away from her.  We saw both sides of the situation.  We know both of them well.  We know what caused her to be afraid in May.  We saw my sister slip further and further from reality.  We saw her unable to cope with truth.  She told us that this was right up there with the other tragedy in her life.  I can’t tell you how that concerned me because of how she was after that.  It wasn’t good.  I was very frightened for her mental health and the children.  I was concerned she was in a cult.  We didn’t take sides, but we did try to help her and be fair to all involved.

We didn’t know what to do to help.  We ended up writing affidavits so maybe the judge would see a problem.  He did and assigned a Guardian ad Litem (GAL).  We told her our concerns for my sister.  I told her something was wrong with her and she needed some sort of help.  I didn’t mention I thought she was in a cult.  Maybe I should have.  The GAL assigned my sister’s entire family (wife, husband, children) to a psych evaluation.  The psych evaluation report stated both parties were abusive in the marriage.  After all the results were in, the GAL with great reservation, told the judge that she recommended my sister have custody of the children and she still wanted to stay on the case.  The judge never heard of a GAL staying on the case afterwards, so he refused.

Really, both parents had their issues and I think the GAL could see that.  I had told my BIL when he was being stupid.  Yes, I actually told him something he did was extremely stupid.  It was not good for his children at the time and should have been avoided, but it wasn’t.  I have been totally honest with my BIL whether he was being mean or stupid.  I let him know.  Believe it or not, he hasn’t  disowned me like my sister has.  I have also told him when my sister was being a jerk to him but I tried to convince him to return evil with good.

So we tried what we could to help my sister.  Everything we did was twisted into abuse.  She is still far from reality today and that is heart-breaking.  Unfortunately, my sister and BIL are both selfish to this day, they still mistreat one another, and their children are still caught in the middle.  Their children have been hurt the most.  I could go on and on, but I think I have given as much detail as I need to help others understand what happened.  As Proverbs 10:19 says, “In the multitude of words sin is not lacking.”

 

 

The Intermediary

Needless to say, my sister did not like what we had to say to her: love your enemies, don’t do what you told your cousin not to do, spend time with your children, get off the computer.  GCMers are allowed to do anything to anybody regardless of what the Bible says.

She wrote us one final e-mail.  It basically said we couldn’t support her at this time so she wasn’t going to talk to us.  She then ended by saying that we could pass any family emergency messages to her intermediary.

What is an intermediary?  The only reason I knew what one was by then is because she already told me her friend was going to get all her e-mails from her husband.  I thought it strange then and even stranger that now we had to go through this intermediary.

Well this did not sit well with any of us.  So my parents made their own “boundary”.  Dear Intermediary, no thanks!  Although my mom and dad sent it with their names on it, none of us wanted to tell a total stranger family tragedies.  Nope, that wasn’t going to happen.  I am sure her GCM friends helped her twist this into abuse too.  It’s what they do!  They are experts at it.

I remember it was a Friday.  I got this brilliant idea!  I called my family and I said, let’s go down to her place this weekend.  She lived a good ways away.  I thought that if we went to her house, it would make a difference.  My family wasn’t convinced it would do any good.  And really, it probably would not have made a difference.  The cult had already brainwashed her.  We didn’t go.

I did send an e-mail to the intermediary though.  I first sent a letter to my sister that was also addressed to this intermediary.  I explained my concerns in it.  I told the intermediary she shouldn’t be reading our e-mails.  I told her it was bizarre.  I told her she only knew my sister for a year or two.  We have known her a long time.  I told her, the intermediary, I was praying for her.

My sister did not respond so I sent an e-mail directed at just the intermediary.  I assumed she did not tell my sister I had written.  I told her I thought my sister was having a nervous breakdown.  I did say something not so nice about her being sick and twisted because I was trying to emphasize something was wrong with my sister and this so-called friend was not helping her.  For a long time, we thought this intermediary was the cause of everything.  She was only a part of the problem.  There was a group of GCMers that were “helping” her get away from her husband and family.

Shortly after this, my sister wanted my BIL to send personal financial information through this intermediary.  Needless to say he said he was not going to send private information to this stranger.  Who knows what she would do with the information given!  She could have robbed them both.  No, this was unwise.  I am sure she considered his no as financial abuse because all his actions by this time were considered some form of abuse.  She dictated (set a “boundary”) to him that he was to give a total stranger sensitive financial information and when he did not comply she screamed abuse.  By this time, she couldn’t reason through anything.  If it wasn’t her (GCM) way then it was abuse.

 

A Few Short Days

*There was a lot that happened in August.  One thing might have happened before the other, I don’t remember the exact order.*

My sister said abuse was escalating.  She said she was scared.  None of us understood why from what she told us.  Things were not making any sense.  I told her not to do what her cousin did.  She got mad at me for that.  She got mad at her husband for everything that he did and said.  She ended up over the next several months being mad at most of the people from her past over little things.    Who wasn’t she mad at?  GCMers.  Well, no, she was mad at some of them because they were concerned with her drinking.

Let me say this about her drinking.  Her GCM friends got her started.  She was getting tipsy.  Some GCMers were concerned.  She called me and told me they should have come to her if they had a problem and not posted what they posted, etc, etc, etc.  I told her it sounded like they were concerned for her.  This was something else that was hard to talk to her about. I was kind of getting concerned at this point and I didn’t even know how bad it was getting because I later found out she lied to me about how much she had been drinking.

So what happened next?  A lot.  We all had so many things to say to my sister.  To this day I believe she thinks we were conspiring with each other against her.  However, without consulting each other, my family each sent e-mails to her.  I was concerned for her spiritual health.  My parents were just concerned because she wasn’t acting like herself.  My other sister wanted her to know she was concerned about the children.  We later compared notes on what each of said since we didn’t know at the time we all were e-mailing her.  This was when she was mad at me for saying what I said about our cousin.  I then told her to love her enemies.   I sent another e-mail to tell her our parents were worried about her.  She told me to stop gossiping.  All we really said to each other was we were worried about her.  No gossip.  Now, remember, GCMers are allowed to get online and tell other GCMers how terrible their family and husbands are.  That is not gossip.  They are “helping” one another and “supporting” one another.  But if their families say they are worried about them, well that is gossip.  UGH!

None of us really knew what to do.

My parents response was:
There are always two sides to a story.
They felt neither side was 100% correct in their positions.
Their grandchildren were in a lose/lose situation.
The way she talks about their father in front of the kids would be detrimental to them.
They suggested she put her computer away because she spends way too much time on it.
Cancel cell phone because of the big importance in her life that it was.
Spend quality time with her children.
Violence on the childrens’ video games were negatively affecting them.

Oh, the horror, the toxicity!!!!  Do you see why she is so scared of us?  No, I don’t either.

So why did my parents say the above?  Because they cared for all parties involved.  They knew my brother-in-law was not perfect.  They also knew their daughter wasn’t either.  Every year when she would come home, it was the same thing.  She would have the oldest watch the others.  She spent a great deal of time on the computer.  That last summer was no different except she spent even more time on the computer.  If the experience was so bad, why wasn’t she spending more time with her children than usual to comfort them?  But her time was spent online.  She kept telling everybody that her main concern was for her children.  We did not see that during the summer nor during the divorce.  It was all about her.

So obviously we are toxic and unsafe because we care for all who are involved in this terrible situation.  We are allies of abuse because we can recognize that both my sister and brother-in-law have treated each other poorly.  We didn’t 100% support my sister because we pointed out concerns and we had the nerve to tell her to spend time with her children!